Vivian Acquah on creating Amplify DEI, an ambitious D&I project whose time has come

Vivian Acquah

Value through Vulnerability (boosted by HumansFirst) Host Garry Turner, Sponsored by Aequip

VtV Coalition

Garry Turner  0:00  

Welcome to Value through Vulnerability. This is a podcast dedicated to putting the human back into humanity. I’m really grateful to be joined by my co host, Mike Vacanti , who is  founder of the HumansFirst movement. And we are also joined by just another exceptional human being in Vivian Acquah. Vivian is the host of her own podcast, Let’s Humanize the Workplace. She’s also setting up an incredible summit called Amplify DEI. But before I get you to learn more about Vivian, let me tell you why she set up the summit because it just blows my mind. Every time Vivian I actually hear and read this. I made a promise to my son Orlando. I want to help make the world a better place starting from within the workplace. By the time he enters the workforce, I don’t want him to deal with the same bs that I’ve had to deal with when it comes to inequity. I want him to live in a world where employees and employers are inspired and inspiring and strive to create thriving work environments for everyone. Welcome to the podcast. Vivian. How are you?

Vivian Acquah  1:03  

Thank you for having me Garry and Mike I am beyond excited. I am. It feels like you know, it’s almost the the birthday of my son and it feels like I’m birthing another child by doing this summit and going through this process and also the fact that so many people are trusting me believing in me but also allowing me to to amplify their voice. It’s huge. It’s huge. So I’m okay. Said the introvert

Garry Turner  1:44  

Vivian I love that so much. But like I said, it’s very, for me, it’s unusual. You’ve got so many conversations on your LinkedIn lives and your YouTube channel. You’re always amplifying everybody else’s voice for which I know that Mike’s grateful I’m grateful you are so visible. yet so humble, which is an incredibly tight balance to walk, give our audience that’s joined us today a little bit more of a view. So we know that the end game is the summit that’s coming up between the 28th and the 30th of September 2020. Let’s go back a bit. So you spoke about Orlando, you spoke about your vision for the difference you want to make with the summit. Let’s go back to a little bit more of the origin story. Can you speak a little bit more to those? Maybe some of those challenges or the life experience you’ve had going through the workplace? What’s the fuel? What’s the actual fuel that brings you to where you are right now?

Vivian Acquah  2:37  

The life challenges that I have and I am definitely also going to share during the summit was I recently started sharing my personal story, and that is I almost lost my life because of racism because of discrimination. I was in my early 20s, where I was in a toxic environment and I had to deal with a manager who was, let’s say the least happy with me with what I had to bring. And it caused me to think less of myself. It caused me to do something that I’m not proud of. And it also caused me so many years of healing  regarding it when it comes to all the different isms because I don’t know the reason why people do what they do so I just say that they are dehumanizing me. I’ve been in a situation where there was almost a Me too. I’ve been in a situation where, you see the work that I’m doing right now and some people call say that I’m overcompensating but  it’s a product of having me in the workplace and me not being seen by my potential. So yes, I do a lot by myself, but it’s also the way that I’ve coped all these years. I was noticed but I didn’t get the credit or I wasn’t seen or wasn’t recognized. 

vivian acquah 1

And you might know me I’m six foot, I think six foot seven or something. I’m very tall one meter 86. So I’m hard to miss. But my heart is very small. I have a big heart but very small in a tiny, you know, tiny basket. And being the only one in the workplace, the only black woman the only black person. It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all. Because I come from a background I’m Ghanian, born and raised in the Netherlands and the Ghanians itself the humbleness that’s my Ghanian character and have been speaking its voice and I just want people to see me the way I am and that I’m really you know, that that big giant that’s from Roald Dahl?  I’m the female version of that. So I want people to see me to acknowledge the work that I’m doing. But I also want to be in an environment where I don’t have to hide myself or where I don’t have to run on eggshells. And think that nobody’s noticing or every time that I’m worried that I’m entering a workplace that I have to hide myself. And I’ve been doing that for a very, very long time. 

And when I became pregnant with Orlando, imagine that I was five weeks pregnant, and I told my then managers I had five managers working in a very small company and there were 36 employees with five managers. Most of them were men. And I told them before I told my family, I told my friends that I was pregnant. And one of them, there were a few mixed reactions. There was one who didn’t react, which is a reaction in itself. And there was one person who was a narcissist, who asked me was it planned. And I knew that if I would react to him, it would not end well for me. So I, I told a white lie. I said, it wasn’t planned out. I mean, what I wanted to tell him, what do you want to see my sex schedule to see what I’m doing on? What day? Because would you ask this question to your wife or to your daughter? Come on? This is the foolish question, but I didn’t. I held it up upon me. And there were these foolish games that were being played with me. 

Because I was pregnant, I noticed that I was being devalued. And I noticed that a different treating was done. It’s been done so at the end of my pregnancy I had a I’m not saying that a very challenging but I was sick more of the time also the times and there were some of these comments made where as I was thinking like okay if I’m going to see these comments treat this comment as real it might hurt my child, it might hurt me. And I don’t want to do that because I always I was already on high blood pressure during the pregnancy, which is which is challenging, especially during the summer being pregnant in the summer is already a challenge. 

So I helped myself in and when Orlando came, it took me a while because I ended up in a depression worrying about my future worrying about my life as a mom. It took me a while. So when Orlando was about four months, I don’t know what he did. But I was looking into his eyes and I could see a particular future. If I don’t change my act now, if I don’t remove myself from that workplace if I don’t change my health now, he will be crying, worrying about my well being, and I don’t want to do that. I did not carry this guy for nine months, and go through a hell of a birth and be unhappy. So I left, I left the workplace when he was four months. And ever since then, I started listening to him. They say kids say the darndest things. And my son is now at age that he becomes you know, challenging, annoying, but I still am listening to what he’s saying because he reminds me so much of my gran. My grandmother who a lot of people say that I reminding them of her, he has that soul that she has. And I listen, I listen to him. 

So when he was about four years old, he started going to school. And all of a sudden, I was talking to his dad and he was talking about, that’s a fixed mindset. And I was like, What? When you learned that because you are just four, how did you learn about fixed mindset? Apparently, he’s in a school where they learn about fixed and growth mindsets, and I am thinking here, there are so many adults that need to learn more about the fixed and growth mindsets because being in this world, especially being here now, a lot of people are dealing with their fixed mindsets and we need to loosen, loosen things up. We need to you know, put some oil in there, put some vision in there and put a whole lot of love in there for them to see what what can happen when you have a growth mindset. So I see my son as my savior I see my son as the reason why I am a phoenix right now the reason why I rebirth it because if it wasn’t for him, I would have stayed in that same job or maybe you know left later, but it took me a while to see my power. It took me a while to see my strengths and it took me a while to see the gifts that I have within me and what I can do for the world.

Garry Turner  10:49  

Beautiful Vivian. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing.

One of those. I know Mike shares it with me I can I can see in his in his If it wasn’t a podcast, honestly, Vivian, I would have sat in that with you for about 10 minutes.

I feel almost rude interrupting that beautiful moment of silence, but I’m here. But I’m acutely aware as well. That people for sitting with this after five minutes, the three of us in silence. But but but I really want to acknowledge you and thank you for sharing so vulnerably because I’ll bring Mike in in a second. But I just think that regardless of your color, regardless of how you identify regardless where you come from in the world, that mindset fixed growth is universal. The ability to own our own narrative is universal, our ability to thrive, the right to do that is universal. So at what point do we believe that one of us has more of a right than another and I love that what you’re doing the summit is breaking down any of those accidental and innocent potentially barriers that people have put up over the years? Which is what I’m really excited about with what you’re creating with the Amplified DEI summit. Mike what’s what’s on your mind my friend?

Mike Vacanti  12:19  

There’s, what was interesting is, you know, I’m listening to the to Vivian’s outpouring and, and emotionally I’m, I’m right there with you. Right. And, and what’s coming up is, and I’m, I’m hearing someone so beautifully state there and why when others have such a hard time even identifying what it might be. Yeah. But what was crazy at the same time is all these triggers were going off in me so I was like in this peaceful kind of dreamy flow when you were telling the story, it felt so good at the same time, there These like, you know, bombs going off in the background and and and and those were those managers behaviors, that is oppression. Yeah and and it can be oppression of race it can be oppression of women but you said it best it was dehumanizing and and why we turn the right over to people because they have a notch up of authority in a business role is it’s incomprehensible. Why do we even allow that? Yeah, right. 

And so at that moment and this is just like the bad part of Mike coming out, which I don’t think I’ve talked about very much but I wanted to be by your side and knock that person down, right. It’s just that that’s the kind of trigger that goes off. It’s wrong on every level. And it’s accepted to such a great degree. Yeah. And, and that’s a fixed mindset unto itself. Why do we allow that incomprehensible behavior to exist in such a nonchalant manner? Where you felt dehumanized. Now, that statement unto itself isn’t. That’s not terminology like we use words as terminology and they have different meanings. But that one is real. It’s linked to a feeling it made you feel less. It caused you to question your own value, as you said, at the same time, that you could be full of this life and giving birth and the enjoyment of that. Boy, those cause tears. Those are big triggers. 

And there are things we have to become tolerant of, that is something we need to become intolerant of. It’s no longer acceptable. And men especially step up, me, all of us. We can’t be that and we can’t allow it. Yeah, in other words, we have to be the change. But in being the change, we might have to shake a few trees along the way. So I it’s so fun because I was in this like peaceful flow because it’s such a beautiful share. And knowing your why and being able to express it so beautifully, at the same time. Those are really incredibly powerful, negative impacts,

Vivian Acquah  16:04  

Definitely. But I do have to say that I’m grateful for these lessons because you know why, without these lessons, I wouldn’t be here. Without these lessons, I wouldn’t. I would not do what I’m doing now. And it’s painful because the pain that I went through in those years, it’s not easy, especially when it comes to mental health. But I’ve been told that I have a very high resiliency bar and I do I have my pity party, maximum two days. And I have an agreement with my partner that he can allow me to have my pity party, but if it takes too long, that’s the time that I need to take action because I know how we can be when the place is dark and I cannot find my own life and along though he is my lights because every time I’m having maybe a down day. I just look in his eyes. And his eyes is my mirror for my commitment. That’s what I see.

Mike Vacanti  17:15  

And that’s you’re bringing so many people to the party with you. Yeah. With the Amplify DEI Summit, which is an amazing body of work is a testament to the power of Orlando’s light. Yeah, from you, that’s now being shared lighting the path for many others to bring their voice forward. And the thoughts that it will spark around the world, Vivian is truly amazing. And that leads me to the other trigger that came up. When anybody tells you you’re overcompensating. Think of how ridiculous of a comment That is we’re taught we’re taught to underpromise and overdeliver. And somehow that’s like, now you’re you know, you’re a gifted person, okay? You underpromise you overdeliver what a wonderful. So you’re coming in like, over over over delivering and somebody saying yeah that’s overcompensating. I want to just wipe that out right now and just say this is not it’s a piece of what you can do. There’s even so much more because I see that brilliant shine. There is no overcompensate. This is like, extraordinary performance. And I commend you for that.

Amplify DEI

Vivian Acquah  18:44  

Thank you.

Where were you when I needed you as a manager? No, really? Where were are you because I have said it before. And I’ll say it again. I see HumansFirst. Definitely. As an example, role model business of how I wish to be, and it’s because of HumansFirst and I have to say thank you to Mike but alsohank you to Garry. I only spoke to Garry once. And the love that you shared on that day itself, it was overwhelming. I just had a conversation with you. That’s it. It was that simple. So the next day when I saw the blast, I I I needed to recover from everything because I was like, I just spoke to you. What is this? Why are you doing this to me? I know now why, but at the time, I found it hard to believe because when you have faced a lot of situations where people don’t see the true magic in you and then not that I need the validation of other people because I  am my own and I know the power. But still it does a lot when people see the true you who you are. And I don’t need no makeup to show the real m, you’re seeing me beyond my colors or whatever andI am new to this. I am learning but I’m also new to this because I have a long history where I can definitely create a list of the bad situations where I’m in and I can create a short list of the good situations that I’m in and this is a good situation. So thank you.

Garry Turner  20:45  

Just sort of like, I’m not gonna lie, I’m like pretty much got a tear in my left eye. I’ve got, you know, value through vulnerability, like it’s but the reason I’m sharing that very deliberately is because there’s a lot of people that do a lot of summits. Like there’s email list builds, there’s marketeers out there that teach you to use these opportunities as a way to build a list. And that’s no problem that there’s no judgement. Like that’s part of building a tribe. But that’s, that’s fine. But the way you’re approaching that, like this is a summit grounded in actionable change, targeting systems, targeting the workplace, targeting our hearts, like, every single thing that you’re doing with this event, is about giving and service. Like every single step of the way. And I know I’m speaking from experience because I’ve done the I’ve had the coach that takes me through how to try and get 100 email lists, thousand email lists, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But the intentionality and the energy that comes with doing it the way you’re doing it, like purely grounded in love and heart and wanting to make a difference in the world, for your son, and all of this. Because you’re taken on the journey with you.

 I don’t know, I just I’m lost for words and you’re probably both know that’s a pretty rare thing. But I mean it from the bottom of my heart because I share my life. No one’s I don’t think anybody in the last five years have seen Garry angry like I don’t do angry very much. But as Mike was talking and reflecting, I had something going up with me which was very rare.Which was that acceptance, the acceptance of bad behavior in the workplace because we’re taking a salary or because we’re worried about the next bonus or because we’re getting a pension payment. You know, I fall into that sometimes. I’m not gonna lie and it’s and I felt the bomb going off in me. Like I work in a corporate and they actually have generally a very good corporate, to, to be fair to them. That’s why I’m still there. But do I challenge as much as I should? Am I as forthright as I should be? I’m questioning myself, not answering it now in this podcast. But that’s the invitation I want to give to people that join you and us on this journey as part of the Amplify DEI summit is if we’re staring at our own children,  In a week, a month, a year’s time. When we get that reflection back, are we going to be happy? Are we going to be proud of how we’re showing up? Or are we not and I just love how you’re inviting us to look in that mirror. Have the courage to look into that mirror.

Vivian Acquah  23:40  

But I’m also I also have to share something because after I explained to Orlando because this happened when I explained to Orlando why George Floyd died. And he started asking me the question, Mama, is somebody going to hurt you? And it’s a question that should never be asked by a child no matter what age. And the fact that he asked me or was worried about my well being. I, I of course had to share a white lie, but still, it shook me. It did not leave me. And then a week later, I saw Alexis Ohanian so the husband of Serena Williams, he gave up his seat, his seat at the  table at Reddit, because of the following question. He wants to be able to answer his daughter’s question. That is, what did you do? What did you do? So he gave up his seat with the commitment that he wants a person of color to have his seat in the board room and to really make that impact. So by the time that’s, you know, Alexis, his daughter, is older, she can at least see and read that her dad did something. I know, I don’t have the budget of Serena Williams and Alexis Ohanian. 

 I was thinking about a proverb, an African proverb, and it goes in a line like this. Sometimes I think I’m small, even though I’m very tall, but the proverb is, think of yourself as a mosquito being in a room. And if you are in a room with a mosquito, who’s going to win? Who is going to win? So in this case, I am the mosquito. And the only thing that I’m asking is my fellow mosquitoes, my fellow advocates, to join me. And to create this moving the needle high because it’s not even moving the needle. It’s a ripple effect that I want to create. For us to Amplify DEI, because the name itself is very powerful. And it’s not a one night stand. Right? It’s not a one night stand that we want to call. So that’s it.

Mike Vacanti  26:17  

I love all of that. The the way you finish it with, it’s not a one night stand. That’s the depth and the rooting, that, you know, I know this is a tree that will bear good fruit. And it’s a tree that will bear good fruit and plant seeds and grow an orchard that it will feed many, many people there’ll be varieties and and that you open that vision up with that commitment makes it happen.

I also want to reflect a little bit more On Serena Williams story, right. So that’s beautiful. But you know, taking any step as her husband did, to to put action is, is commendable. Certainly she has a platform right platform because she used her best skills, the best manner she could, and the dedication and the practice it takes to be in that position to build that platform and achieve is very much what you’re doing now. Also the work that you’re doing behind all of this is extraordinary. You’re doing it on your own. Think of how many practice sessions that equates to, and you’re doing it not for yourself. You’re doing it with the heart and vision for Orlando, but also the many that you’re serving. And you’re doing it not for the impact of This first iteration, this first set, or match in this first arena, but with the vision of building worldwide. And I just, I want to reflect on that context, because going into something that large, with the focus, purpose, strength and humility that you’re doing now is extraordinary. And those are extraordinary gifts that even Serena doesn’t.  You’re bringing your game to the floor.

Vivian Acquah  28:44  

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, I look up to both Alexis and Serena. So they do. They are my role models, especially when it comes to a black woman with a white partner. Who are having or raising a biracial son. And the fact that her husband’s is not only, you know, donating money, but he’s really moving the needle. I’ve seen him do a lot of stuff that I wish that more fathers would do, I look up to him. And to me, it’s just, that’s the only way to do right. I know it’s challenging because again, I’m I am going to share. A lot of people tell me that I’m not introvert, but know that when I show up at Humanize the Workplace or even here, I turn on my ambivert and then when you don’t see me, that’s when the introvert hits. I am appreciative of the compliments that you share. But the only obligation that I have is to create a better future that I see for my son. That’s it. That’s it.

Mike Vacanti  30:00  

I don’t want to step on that at all. Thank you for being emotional and sharing that depth. Truly. There was something that came up when you talk about Orlando again. And, and Serena. Yeah, as a role model and, you know, the US Open’s going on right now. Right. And, and so, you know, I’m watching a match and screen is playing and, and during that match, they pan to the side and there’s, you know, her husband and, and, and Alexis,

Vivian Acquah  30:33  


Mike Vacanti  30:35  

is waving. She just stops, right, gets in, like little Mom, you know, love came pouring out of her and she gets a grin on her face and she’s kind of given the cute wave back in the middle of a match, right? It’s like, I’m doing this thing but it really doesn’t matter. That’s the thing that it is. There’s some really big Whoa, symmetry.

Vivian Acquah  31:01  

Thank you.

Mike Vacanti  31:09  

Garry, can you see one thing also about, you know, I don’t want to let it pass. Vivian had mentioned when she had that, that one first conversation with you and the love that poured out and feeling seen and supported. And I just want to acknowledge for everybody on the podcast, your ability to do that. With Vivian as she expressed it, but with so many of us, truly so many of us I’d be remiss if that just wasn’t like, brought back up and, and showcased again because we feel that like we all experience it, you know, those of you let so many in mm to experience it. So I think Just, you know, I kind of want to jump next to Vivian and say thank you.

Garry Turner  32:09  

Don’t start me off, man. But thank you. It’s It’s It’s just for any of you that listening like this is heartfelt stuff like this is not these are unscripted conversations for anyone that’s listen to Value through Vulnerability before, and I think the reason that we’re feeling not just the reason but like the, the energy that is around this Amplify DEI summit and the community of HumansFirst and the other communities that you’re all part of, whether it be Hacking HR or Conscious Capitalism or it be, you know, Disrupt HR, like they’re all important because they’re bringing people together. And what I’m experiencing and both of you and with the communities we all share. The time is now for Amplify DEI,  like it really is and for anybody that saw my reaction to the tragic murder of George Floyd. As Mike and I are now diving into these Truly hue-man conversations of which Vivian kindly is joined as well, ones coming out soon. I’ve never been so clear that we are equally human. But we don’t all start from the same place yet within the current societal system. And that’s the work of Amplify DEI for me, is bringing that starting place back to something that’s far more equitable. They’ll always be relevant winners and losers based on the effort that people are put in. But I remember Mike and maybe Vivian and Mike, you can add to this as a challenge this the number of times I’ve heard in the last three years, meritocracy doesn’t exist. Yeah, because you don’t let the bloody meritocracy exist because you want to prevail with the current system. That’s why it doesn’t exist. It’s it’s not that it’s not possible. It absolutely is possible. It’s because you have got the power don’t want it to be possible.

Vivian Acquah  33:57  

They are there they are afraid of something They are afraid of maybe winning, they’re afraid of losing the positions. But if you look at the McKinsey reports, there are so many reports and here I go again sharing some facts. But we all like it when we drop names, right? So there are McKinsey reports and the Deloitte reports that are showing that when you go beyond the gender diversity, so go beyond the white, female diversity, as I call it, you will see that your company will win when you add more sprinkles of diversity into different layers of your company. And I don’t know what we need to do more. So that’s why when the McKinsey came and McKinsey comes every year with the same report saying that there is diversity matters.

 It really matters when it comes to finance when it comes to being on top, and even even I think it’s Michael, the guy from great places to work, Michael C. Bush, I guess he even admitted that there’s no you know, you cannot hide anymore as a company, you cannot hide anymore great, great places to work has to be for everybody, not for some, not for the elected or not from the majority. It has to be for everybody. So, I am doing it in my way thinking that I’m a very small person, but a very small person with a big heart can do a lot and that’s what I’m seeing here right now. So Amplify DEI is a way to honor my past and my past is my grandmother, who passed so many hardship towards me. And I’m, I’m looking towards my future and this is reminding me have a Ghanian proverb that is sankofa which is returned back, bring back from the past and bring it towards your future. That’s sankofa I have it as a tattoo on my arm, which is reminding me of this.

Mike Vacanti  36:24  

I am compelled to action, with with your commitment, with your with your purpose. And in that being compelled to action. I can only share, you know my stories and where I got to be here. And while I won’t bore any of you with that today, the point is my step forward is the or so you know, like my encouragement to everyone is stop defending. Stop defending that past and own it. Like we get to enter come in from the dock, on which we stand on today. And our next step off of the important one, don’t defend it. I know more now because I’ve intentionally gone out into conversations and sought understanding that I wouldn’t have otherwise had. And you’re sharing your story with us today. So we can all have a glimpse of that. And so now what do we do it? You know, it that’s when I say, you know, for us, white men stop defending the past they move forward. We can’t hide anymore, but we don’t want to, like we need all the best people all of the good to be elevated as high as they want to strive, and then will really create you.

Vivian Acquah  38:07  

Amen to that.

Mike Vacanti  38:10  

I’m gonna tie your shoe and run every step of that race.

Garry Turner  38:18  

I just, I’m just trying to find anyone that I’ve got. I’ve just ran awesome on a little post it note, and I try to do in and out of the screen. If anybody knows Vivian, they’ll understand that if you don’t go and watch some of her talks, and it’ll all make sense. Vivian, as we look to wrap up today, thank you so much that heartfelt message as well, Mike, and I just want to acknowledge you, Vivian. I know for you, it’s not about you is about Orlando. It’s about the difference you’re making. But please do accept the gratitude and the excitement that I have for you and what you’re creating for you and your family. I’m also grateful for bringing all of us together because you’re building community again. Yeah, that’s what you’re doing like that you’re you’re building a movement around the DEI space, which is so sorely needed. And, yeah, as the white guy that was bullied as a kid. Yeah, I know what it feels like to be other than as I share in my talk with you and with all of us during the DEI summit. I had those challenges without having to face systemic challenges and the other barriers that people of color and minorities had to face. 

So I can only empathize, only start to empathize. Like in my middle class white challenges of which I had many. I didn’t have to deal with any of that other stuff. The time is up on the bullshit. Sorry, I’ve now got to put money on this podcast. So sorry about that. But the time is up, let’s call out the BS now. Let’s show up fully, because we can do it together. Like we’re not singling anyone out. That’s what I love leaving about your message. That’s what I love, Mike about your passionate exploration today. We’re not blaming anyone. What’s happened before is gone. Now, let’s co-create better because we’ve got that in our hands. And this summit is part of what’s in our hands right now.

Mike Vacanti  40:10  

And I would encourage everyone to find Vivian reach out to Vivian the 28th through the 30th of September, please engage because she’s brought a world of really amazing people together, that I can’t wait to learn from. and take this step in, because this is, this is the fertile soil that we can all plants and and Vivian is plowing away for all of you. All of us. And so in that sense. I do want to make it about you and thank you. And, and I’m enjoying consume her podcasts, jump in on this event. Follow her work.

Mike Vacanti 41:09  

She’s demonstrating true leadership. Thank you.

Vivian Acquah  41:19  

I am honored. I’m grateful. And I’ll end it with this quote, it takes a village to raise a child and this is a child and I’m so grateful that you are part of this village because it’s going to be awesome. That’s it. It’s called Sweet hustle. That’s it.

Garry Turner  41:39  

How can people find you Vivian and of course let people know how they can find Amplify DEI.

Vivian Acquah  41:44  

You can find me via LinkedIn, or go to Amplify DEI, and you find the awesome, speakers, the awesome talks, but most of all, it’s about the actions that the speakers are sharing so these talks are made for walking.

Garry Turner  42:09  

You’re a joy. Good luck. Thanks for involving us in it, and good luck. If you’re joining us, if you’ve joined us in this conversation today. Please do reach out like this is beyond, it’s actually really competitive as well. You can get access for a full 12 months for just 99 euros for a whole for basically a transformational learning experience so investing yourself is going to be good for the world. If you do so, so thanks for joining us, Mike, thank you Vivian. And thank you so much for joining us. Take care.

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Garry Turner

With over 20 years of international sales, business development and relationship-building experience combined with a deep understanding of people, team and culture dynamics, Garry Turner serves individuals, teams and leaders as a strategic advisor and interpersonal catalyst.

Mike Vacanti

Mike’s mission is simply to help as many people as he can discover their potential, embrace a growth mindset and achieve at inspired levels individually, as a brilliant team and for the betterment of their company and community.